It would more accurate to call this lost Old World empire some kind of mix of Columbian / Scythian / Phonecian and not Tartarian. Tatary was just a region and the original occupants were Scythian.
“Tartaria” is a myth and didn’t exist
- Thread starter dreamtime
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dreamtime | Administrator | Staff memberTrusted Member
Tartary, a vast country in the northern parts of Asia… This is called Great Tarary (1771, Encyclopedia Britannica)
As we got many new users during the last months, some from Youtube, I think it’s time to start a thread on this topic.
Many people in the alternative history community believe there was a unified civilization until recently, and that it was called “Tartaria”. The idea of calling this civilization “Tartaria” is mostly being spread on Reddit and Youtube, and is being promoted by Youtubers who earn money with creating an almost religious following.
Read this to get an overview of previous research on Tartaria: SH Archive – Tartary – an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once…
I think everyone who uses the term Tartaria to describe the Old World continues to cement a misleading view of alternative history.
While Tartary itself was real, it was not what many people now think it was. I do think there once was a unified civilization, with a unified architecture. But “Tartary” is a wrong name for it.
The myth came about when Russians started to realize that before their country was called Russia, it was named “Tartaria” on old maps. And it didn’t only span Russia, but most of Asia.
Tartaria was split into different parts – Russian (Muscovite) Tartary, Chinese Tartary, etc.
Later some people found evidence that there were remains of Tartaria in America, mostly Western America, too. So the idea spread that Tartaria was literally everywhere.
And this is where things started to move into the wrong direction. In reality, Tartaria was simply a geographic area in Asia, with some of those Tartarians also influencing the American culture.
There is nothing more to it. It was part of the “Old World”, but it wasn’t exclusively the Old World.
So using the term Tartaria everytime one speaks about this old world cements a misleading view of a Slavic-centric world, where for some reason Russian culture dominated everything else.
To this date, not a single proof has been presented why this geographically limited region in Asia called “Tartary” was worldwide.
It is now simply a meme, and in my view it is a dangerous meme, because it limits our possibilities of what the Old World really was.
Country Flag of Tartary, independent of China, indeed suggesting a political structure. Another map here.
Yes, Tartary was somehow forgotten after the communist revolution. Yes, Tartary was probably not a geographical area but a kingdom of sorts, with a flag and political unity. Yes, it was probably powerful at one point. Yes, Tartarian influence extended probably to America. No, it was not a worldwide advanced civilization that somehow dominated all of the other kingdoms we see on old maps.
A quick glance on the oldest maps of Tartary show that not the entire world was Tartary, surprinsigly.
South of Tartary you see Arabia, Persia, India, China and Japan. To the West is Europe.
If anything, Tartary should be understood as a symbol for forgotten knowledge – that’s why we have the Tartary Griffin in our logo.
I will use this thread to collect more information on this, with the goal to publish an extensive article on this topic, wich can be provided as a reference whenever the topic of Tartary comes up.
Many scientists from Western Europe considered the Great Tartary a huge empire stretching from the Urals to the Pacific Ocean. For example, the Italian diplomat and Jesuit Giovanni Botero in his work “Universal Relation” (Relationi universali), dated 1595, wrote that this country used to be called Scythia.And it occupies half of Asia, in the west bordering on the Volga region, and in the south – with China and India. At the same time, the lands of a huge empire on one side are washed by the waters of the Caspian Sea, and on the other by the Bering Sea.Another representative of the Jesuit order – the French Orientalist Jean-Baptiste Duhalde – in 1735 published a scientific work entitled “Geographical, historical, chronological, political and physical description of the Chinese Empire and Chinese Tartary.” In his opinion, in the west this huge country borders with Muscovy, in the south – with Mongolia and China, from the north this state is washed by the Arctic Sea, and the East Sea separates Tartarius from Japan.
Where was the Great Tartary? | Earth Chronicles News
The pseudohistorical conspiracy theory about Great Tartaria first appeared in Russia, popularized by Nikolai Levashov, and in Anatoly Fomenko’s New chronology. In Russian pseudoscience, known for its nationalism, Tartaria is presented as the “real” name for Russia, which was maliciously “ignored” in the West (for example, the 2011 film “Great Tartary – Empire of the Rus”, posted on YouTube). Since about 2016, conspiracy theories about the supposed lost empire of “Tartaria” have gained some steam on the English-speaking part of the Internet.The conspiracy is based mostly on a misunderstanding of architectural history. Adherents suppose that demolished buildings such as the Singer Building, or the temporary grounds of the 1915’s World’s Fair were actually the buildings of a vast empire based in Tartary that has been suppressed from history. Sumptuously styled Gilded Age buildings are often held out as really having been built by the supposed Tartaria. The conspiracy is very light on details, and only vaguely describes how such a supposedly advanced civilization which had reputedly achieved world peace could have fallen and been hidden. The idea that a “mud flood” wiped out much of the world and thus old buildings is common, supported only by the fact that some buildings have basements which had windows. World War I & II are cited as a way in which Tartaria was destroyed and hidden, reflecting the reality that the extensive bombing campaigns of World War II did destroy many historic buildings. The general evidence for the theory is that there are similar styles of building around the world, such as capital buildings with domes, or star forts. However, such designs exist globally due to colonialism by empires such as Britain, Spain, and Portugal, not some lost empire such as Tartaria. The theory reflects a cultural discontent with modernism, and a supposition that traditional styles are inherently good and modern styles are bad.